Spring Question| Grassroots Motorsports forum |

So I got a deal on springs for the back of the car and now I know why. They are both 400 pounds per inch springs, but they aren't matched. One of the springs has one extra coil. The rate is linear.

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What kind of problems will that cause? Should I expect them to behave differently? Coil bind won't be an issue with my travel.

Cool, then assuming they are both the same rate (I know you said they were) and coil bind is not an issue they should be functionally the same.

I guess one might weight a few grams less than the other? But that should be small potatoes.

I'd run em.

Easier than the equation: Stand on one spring. have someone measure the height. Stand on the other, repeat.

Your weight/inches of deflection (height with no weight minus height with your weight) = lbs/in. Depending on your ability to stand still on top of a spring and your helpers measuring techniques, you should be able to get within 5% or so. At least it will tell you if they really are the same rate or different rates.

If they truly are the same rate with different number of coils, they must be a different material, thinkness, etc. But I think that matters little as long as the intended rate is achieved.

My worry is:

If you have a spring with 8 active coils (coils not touching anything that actually contribute to absorbing bumps) with a .325 diameter wire, and a spring outside diameter of 2.5" then you'll have a spring rate of 334lbs/in

Same dimensions with 9 active coils knocks the spring rate down to 297lbs/in

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You've lost about 40lbs per inch of spring rate (2.5" of compression would yield a 100lb difference from spring to spring).

I don't have the experience to say how much of an effect it will have on the car, but I'd be hesitant (quite possibly due to ignorance).

Can you contact the company?

edited:

Gimp wrote: CORRECTION Two more could on the one spring, but everything else appears to be the same, including wire diameter.

ok with 8 coils on one side, and 10 coils on the other you would now be running

334lbs/in VS 268lbs/in

That's a lot in my book.

Can say 99% they will not be the same rate. If you want to ship'em to me I will test them in my spring rater for $10 a spring. or if you have time and $$ make your own... https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a...&type=1&l=cb8fab7b4b no FB account needed to see pictures.

If the length and rate are the same and the only difference is the number of coils, the only functional difference is that the one with more coils will have a taller block height - in other words, it can compress less before it becomes completely solid and the spring rate becomes practically infinite.

BTW I got bit hard once by trying to determine a spring's rate from dimensions - I would highly recommend against it.

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So I just installed some new coilovers (FOX FTS) and the ride is very rough. Every time I hit a pot hole it feels unbelievably harsh. I noticed it doesn't flex at all on larger obstacles either which makes going over ruts and rocks unbearable.

Right now I have the preload set pretty high but not out of spec. I tried to match the front to the rear and I have done a pretty good job of that so keeping the current height would be ideal.

So my question is if I wanted to soften the front and keep the lift I have, what would need to happen? Should I buy longer springs with the same rate or higher spring rate ones? They are used and I rebuilt the shock but I didn't get new springs. Who knows how many miles are on the old ones. I believe the springs that come with them are originally 13" and 650lbs. Would say a 14" 600 lb one be softer? Or a 14" 700lb one?

Thanks!

Thank you! So I should try to get a longer spring with the lowest rate? Doing so will still allow the truck to be lifted the same amount?

Interesting. I knew these trucks were pretty light but no that light. In the next few weeks I will be purchasing an All-Pro baja style front bumper. Do you think this would be enough weight or should I still look for some 600lb springs?

I'm by no means an expert on this stuff as the whole spring length vs. rating vs. preload vs. valving equation makes my head spin. All I know is that my Kings with 600# springs adjusted for ~2.25" lift are pretty darn stiff, too. I do know eventually I'm going to be adding a heavier bumper so I don't want to go with lighter springs, but it was suggested to me that I get my Kings revalved for a softer ride so that's what I plan on doing when the time comes to rebuild them.

This is exactly what I am thinking. Thanks!

I still think they might be too heavy for that but honestly I can't say for sure. Keep in mind our 1st gens came stock with < 500lb springs so 650 is pretty heavy duty for them.

Related, but shock pressure plays a role in coil rate as well. Let's say you want a 675 lb coil but only have 650 or 700 as options. You could go 650 and pump a little more gas in there, or visa versa. There's only so much adjustibility with that, but it is there. So I'd get 14" in whatever rate you determine you need, and a local shop could help you out with the gas if it comes to that.

On paper this sounds good but in my experience I disagree. I know I'm a second gen but the concept applies. I had 590lb coils, added a lot of weight, and then went to 660 lb coils. God damn the thing rode so much better with the stiffer coils, because they were a better pair for the weight I had up front.

I get that, valving is a whole different beast that's for sure. I'll get some 14" 600lb springs and see how they feel.

I didn't know that stock was only 500lb. 600lb is a large jump compared to stock.

I have mine filled to the recommended 200psi. I'm no expert on shocks at all and just followed the directions while rebuilding.

yeah for example the OME (old man emu) springs for 1st gens are all 500lb springs (OME 880 - 882) and the heavier ones for added weight are 590lb. They don't even advertise a spring above 600lbs for our trucks, you'd have to get one of the 2nd gen Tacoma springs to get a 650lb one

How much weight do you have added?

Nothing wrong with that at all, I have no idea what my fronts are at and have my rear at 150psi. Just wanted to let you know that you have some adjustability there. Before you go start messing with pressure though, I'd ask fox what the range is you should be within.


I went from a stock front end to an extra 265 lbs (bumper+winch+IFS skid). The thing nose dove like a mofo. For reference, stock for 2nd gens is 500 I believe, I had 590, and went to 660.

I don't know too much about 1st gens but it does sound like 14" 600 will be a good choice for you.

Good to know! In that case I would probably benefit greatly downsizing to a 600lb spring. And if OME's springs are rated at 590 for extra weight I'm sure adding a bumper/winch with 600lb springs would even out pretty good.